On Food, Memory, and Writing: Three Questions with Jung Hae Chae

Grace Yun for AGNI: “It was forgetting at the heart of drinking, forgiving at the heart of communal eating” (from “The Great Meal,” AGNI 86). What is at the heart of cooking for you?  

This morning, my seven-year old daughter, Audrey, looks up from her breakfast table, and tells me excitedly (again) about her life ambitions, one of which is to become a world-class chef or “cooker” as she sometimes calls the profession. Lately I’ve given over to her demands of helping me cook, so I let her slice, dice, chop, julienne carrots, potatoes, celeries, even onions. She stirs soups and stews, stir-fries veggies and fish patties. With a quick swish of her wrist, she sprinkles salt and garlic powder (sometimes too much) on everything. She does so, not for content but for form. (She’s all about the form!) Don’t forget the garnish, she says, as she reaches for spring onions.

Form is to ritual as cooking is to remembering. And it’s true that everything worth remembering happened in the first seven years of my life. So, I cook and I remember. The smell of the wood burning inside that dark, bunker-like kitchen of my grandmother’s house, the warmth of the fires from her wok, its afterglow on my cheeks in winter evenings. I remember the early-morning screeches of the roosters behind our house, the smell of the fresh raw pig liver that I fetched for my grandmother on Saturday mornings to help with her eyes. My grandmother, the Man in the house for all of us three generations of women. I cook and I remember the lights of the night market igniting the small dreams of the 1970’s post-war South Korea and its people. I remember because I loved the complex smells of the dirty streets, the cacophony of the black market vendors haggling or cussing or whatever, even the dirty looks of the old men glaring at my wee-year-old self as I ran away from them. I remember the layers of pains associated with a childhood lost to lost dreams, in between the layers of myths held untouched by a child somehow. I remember my dead grandmother and my mother. I cook and I remember.

GY/AGNI: Do you think writing is also communal?

Most definitely. Writing is an act borne out of community. I often hear many “voices” speaking to me, as I try to form the language to express “them” and “their” experiences. Quite literally, in writing, the speaker is not I, but a conglomerate of experiences of the people I am interested in giving voice (power) to. I have been preoccupied with the voices of women in my life, and my “ancestors” in a broad sense of that term. For me, these are the people who haunt me the most.

GY/AGNI: Finally, does the process of writing involve some level of forgetting and forgiving for you?

I think so. I find writing to be a humane act, not far from an epiphany. I read in some self-help book that to forgive is to remove the illusion that the past could have been any different than it was. To do so requires a brutal truth-facing—or, at the very least, an exploration into the (often uncomfortable) unknown, requiring a reckoning of some sort. I think good writing, like any religious experience, happens when one is pushed to the limits and awakened to the truth-seeking soul, when clarity of the imagination meets some Scary Truth via language authentic to lived experience. In recalling a primal memory, and rendering a sober take on the human experience from an imagined viewpoint, you forget who you are, and forgive the illusory gravity-bound existence. That is to say, I forget and forgive the unreflected self, in favor of the ever-searching one.

AGNI Monkey

JHCJung Hae Chae’s work has appeared in CALYX, Crab Orchard Review, AGNI, MiPOesias, Third Coast, and elsewhere. See what she’s published in AGNI here.




GYGrace Yun, an intern at AGNI, is from Los Angeles. She is in the BU fiction program. Her grandmother is her muse.


Fostered Alike By Beauty and By Fear: Montale, Wordsworth and the Landscapes of Childhood


by Ralph Sneeden

When you love a place and lose your foothold in it through self-exile, or the inevitable economics that annihilate real estate across a family’s generations, or simply because it has changed, what you write about it risks whiny longing, the tang of sour grapes. A whiff of elegy, however, seems OK, as long as it doesn’t idealize. Years ago, I wrote a poem about the Little Peconic Bay, and I’m pretty certain the path I took back to it changed my writing for the better.

As a kid, I’d spent a lot of time on the South Fork of Long Island; the setting had been a wellspring in my earlier work, but with the poem “Peconic” arrived a new impulse that seemed governed by memories that were more eerie, their descriptors’ tone shaped by desolation, danger, and death. Abandoned fishing nets, the viscera of fish in a kitchen sink, severed deer feet in the dunes, terrifying myths about horseshoe crabs, the competing shame and relief of being land-bound while others embark on a menacing sea. Settling on these particular moments was an important aesthetic juncture; wherever this project seemed to lead, each increment tended to veer from nostalgia into more mysterious, unexplainable realms. As I approached the closure of the sequence (ten seven-line, numbered cantos in trimeter), I realized that I was reclaiming while trying to say goodbye to a beloved and evocative landscape by conjuring its most haunting moments. Beauty was now accompanied by a sketchy sidekick.

The challenge of writing “Peconic,” however, wasn’t in deciding over which images to hang spotlights; rather, it was in mustering the faith—as I felt my way along—that they might reveal some unintended cargo in being reconjured. Though a writer’s receptiveness to new or dormant emotions that memories might broach sounds pretty boiler-plate, shaping their nuanced spiritual freight in ways that are neither saccharine nor too gothic needs mentoring. At certain junctures in my development as a writer, I admired, absorbed, and parroted poems that evoked in the settings of their childhood narratives some proximity to general creepiness, horrors embedded in the everyday. Poems in Seamus Heaney’s Death of a Naturalist, Yusef Komunyakaa’s Magic City, and Dave Smith’s The Roundhouse Voices provided gritty inspiration propelled by contemporary voices that I could emulate, poets who were neither sentimental nor interested in beating themselves up, wallowing in angst. To be sure, the Peconic Bay in the late 1960’s-early 70’s was my favorite place on earth. It was paradise, and that was the problem. Especially when it came to writing about it.

During the last decade, however, it was William Wordsworth and Eugenio Montale who nudged me closer to a way of remembering Long Island that was neither unrealistically dark nor selectively euphoric. As an adult trying to dial in the perceptions of a self long gone, my return to mine the aesthetic discord of childhood (via those two poets) also taught me about the roots of aspiration, how these muses—these homes—shape the future.

Wordsworth and Montale shared the blessing of growing up in spectacular natural environments. For Wordsworth, it was the peaks and vales of the Lake District in the northwestern portion of England known as Cumbria; and for Montale, the Ligurian coast of Italy’s northwest extremity, the string of towns known as the Cinque Terre. Reverberating through the work of both was the echo of that parental binary Wordsworth describes three-hundred lines into his great poem, that he, “…grew up / Fostered alike by beauty and by fear.”

Translator William Arrowsmith said that although Montale’s decision to leave his childhood home in Monterosso for the urban literary bustle and intellectual cafés of Florence was deliberate, the poems in Ossi di Seppia (Cuttlefish Bones) prove that, “Liguria is not, could not, be abandoned.” Though it wasn’t exactly beauty he had exhausted, Dave Smith says in “Cumberland Station,” his poem about returning to the ancestral railyards in his native Cumberland County, Virginia: “I hope I never have to go through this place again.” Even though we are looking over his shoulder as he grimly, compellingly writes his way back there as if in a dream.

Arguably, the anchor of Wordsworth’s investigation of memory and one of the most frequently cited segments of The Prelude is the “spots of time” sequence. What makes it so provocative is its foundational scene of the thirteen-year-old Wordsworth waiting on a desolate hillside above Hawkshead for his brothers to bring him home from school for Christmas vacation. It is a landscape and climate cinched to his memory by three sensory bolts: a stonewall, a sheep, and a hawthorn tree, which he characterizes as “companions.” The trinity of images is explicit enough, but the auditory experience seems just as formative. The blasted tree “whistles,” the wall has its own “bleak music,” and we can only imagine the implicit bleating of the sheep on the windy fell, the only other warm-blooded agent in the scene. By its end, we learn that a few days after Wordsworth arrived home to Cockermouth, his forty-two year old father died, and the three brothers “followed his body to the grave.” The aesthetic miracle of this memory and its details is that they have become, despite their origins, a healing force in later years, a mysterious “beneficent influence.”

Montale’s and Wordsworth’s poems from Ossi and sections of The Prelude share the plaintive refrains of debt, where any attempt to evoke is buttressed by the poets’ doubting their worthiness as the recipients of such gifts, no matter how terrifying some of them should have been (see Wordsworth’s narratives about watching the authorities drag a corpse from the lake or his being hounded by the shadow of a mountain after he stole a boat). The persuasive rawness of thought in each convinces me that the poets are deciding within the construction of the line, despite frustration, what they need to do with their art, and what these places have done for it. Montale writes,

If only I could force
some fragment of your ecstasy
into this clumsy music of mine;
had I the talent to match your voices
with my stammering speech—
I who once dreamed of acquiring
those salt sea words of yours
where nature fuses with art—
and with your vast language proclaim the sadness
of an aging boy who shouldn’t have learned how to think.

“Mediterraneo” is a sequence of almost epistolary dramatic monologues, addressed to the paternal sea, the recipient of Montale’s churning thoughts and images. Wordsworth turns to the River Derwent, which ran, as the poem explains, in back of his childhood house at Cockermouth. What is unmistakable in the lyric prayers of both poets is a cathartic energy that both describes while it addresses; evoking and invoking these bodies of water and their surroundings in memory ultimately brings the poets closer to themselves, their ambitions for their art. In his poem “End of Childhood” Montale seems less satisfied with the ambiguities and acknowledges the chore of remembering (which, in “The Prelude” seems so facile, so fluent). Of being a child-denizen of the Ligurian coast, he writes,

We rarely crossed the nearest ridges
of those peaks; even now our memory, exhausted,
lacks the courage to cross them…

…But we came back home from those mountain paths.
For us they became a flickering
alternation of strange realities,
but governed by an elusive rhythm.
Each instant, burning
into future instants, left no trace.
Just being alive was adventure, fresh, too fresh,
hour by hour, and the heart racing, always faster.
There were no rules,
no measure, no sure way
of dividing joy from sadness.

Reconciling or appreciating in our memories the tensions between “beauty and fear” or “joy and sadness” are as difficult as contending with those skirmishes between confession and complaint, elegy and anthem, or grief and grievance (a paring I steal happily from Dave Smith). Especially when it comes to physical environments, and even more so when we’re thinking about a time when time didn’t matter. Montale’s longing for oblivion, escape, or passage to another plane of being is more elusive than Wordsworth’s faith in the paradoxically restorative value of fear or trauma and how they are transformed in imagination over time (the fulcrum of all of his great works). Though both poets suggest that memories are not immune to the ravages of subsequent experiences, something in their essence—simultaneously melancholic and ecstatic—endures to enhance their aspirations as artists. As I committed myself to “Peconic,” I remember being seduced by the glimmer of this redemption in one of Montale’s earliest poems, “Seacoasts” (“Riviere”), with which he chose to conclude Cuttlefish Bones:

Today I come home to you
a stronger man (or I deceive myself), although
my heart almost melts in memories, happy
but also bitter. Sad soul of my past,
and you, fresh purpose summoning me now.

AGNI Monkey

SteveLewisPhoto@gmail.comRalph Sneeden’s poems and essays have appeared most recently in The Adroit Journal, The Common,  Ecotone, Southwest Review, and The Surfer’s Journal. The title poem of his book, Evidence of the Journey, received the Friends of Literature Prize from Poetry magazine. He lives and teaches in New Hampshire. See what he’s published in AGNI here.

Writers Are Citizens of the World

by Nancy Kassell

We are writers. We protect our time and our psyches and just now it’s especially hard. Terrorist attacks, hurricanes, wildfires, earthquakes, threats to constitutional government, and oh yes, do I still have a job sap our writing attention. Writers and other artists have always been the ones to try to reckon with the terrors and anxieties of human experience. Tag: we’re IT.

I’m thinking about Adrienne Rich’s phrase “the dream of a common language” (the title of her 1978 book of poetry). The phrase suggests a vision of a community of goals and values, aspirations and hopes which may have the power to transcend boundaries: national, linguistic, cultural, social, maybe even religious and political. A work of literature is universal, we say. In this divided and divisive time in the United States, it seems more important than ever to think and write globally, and with awareness of justice, fairness, kindness, and at times, rage.

And we are working against gross misuses of languages. And disrespect for language. Ignorance, and proud of it. We have a president who commands few words and uses them to deliver threats, warnings, insults, and apocalyptic decrees. Who has no sense of nuances of meaning or the common practices of social communication. Who seems to exist in a vacuum and doesn’t know or care about social, political, or cultural traditions or history. Who embodies American anti-intellectualism, described by Richard Hofstedter in his 1963 book of that title. The president’s ethos is a grave threat to American culture and society.

Thucydides’ description of changes that occurred in the Hellenic world during the Peloponnesian War resonates with our moment in history:

“To fit in with the change in events, words, too had to change their usual meanings. What used to be described as a thoughtless act of aggression was now regarded as the courage one would expect to find in a party member; to think of the future and wait was merely another way of saying one was a coward; any idea of moderation was just an attempt to disguise one’s unmanly character; the ability to understand a question from all sides meant that one was totally unfitted to action. Fanatical enthusiasm was the mark of a real man . . .”

This passage has often been cited in times of crisis or uncertainty, and unfortunately it is often applicable. What does it mean for writers today? It has always been an artist’s responsibility to tell the truth. The telling must be precise and eloquent. Loud and expressed often. Truth is complex, of course, but it is definitely not lies, half-truths, fake news, evasions, or silence. Journalism and other media are the most relevant here, but a writer is also a citizen, and citizenship carries responsibilities. In a broader sense, too, a writer is a citizen of the world.

The New America values wealth over people. It values wealth over language and culture. This is a country of, by, and for the rich; a democratic republic trending toward plutocracy, autocracy, and oligarchy. Writers and other artists, along with many, many others, will likely suffer the consequences of fundamental changes now in progress.

For myself, a poet, I find that I need to bring more of my concerns about our culture and my country into my work. I am trying to write more, and more precisely, about what is happening today, traditions of the past as I know them, and how these are connected—and not.

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author photoNancy Kassell was a founding and long-time member of the Writers’ Room of Boston. She is the author of two books of poetry, Text(isles) (2013) and the chapbook Be(longing) (2016), both published by Dos Madres Press. Her translation from the Polish (with Anita Safran) of “Non omnis moriar” by Zuzanna Ginczanka, the first English translation of the poem, appeared on AGNIOnline. She lives in Brookline, MA.

The Damage Done

by Greg Bottoms

I knocked on my grandmother’s tattered screen door. This was in Hampton, Virginia, in 2002. She had asked me to visit.

The door spring was broken, and the hook was undone, so the door whapped against the scarred, paint-chipped frame after each knuckle rap. There were small holes in the lower part of her screen, as if a child had poked through it with a pencil, or someone had held the cherry of a cigarette against it.

I didn’t know my grandmother very well. This was my dead father’s mother. I saw her once, maybe twice a year once I was a teenager and after, and then usually only for an hour or so around Christmas or Easter. My father had grown up at the edge of poverty. His parents fought. His mother drank. His father was a schemer, later depressed, later dead of a heart attack or stroke (no autopsy) and left to rot for a couple of days in this small, brick house while his mother and father had been briefly separated. My father found his father’s body, dealt with the ambulance, the police, the coroner, the funeral home, the grave, the headstone, his mother’s grief, his own. But he never talked about it. He was like that. A product of dysfunction, distrust, precariousness. He turned this all into a tough-guy veneer. “John Wayne,” my mother called him. The Marlboro Man. Tragedy, strain, and painful memories had partially, in an unspoken way, estranged my father from his mother, even though we lived barely ten miles away. He loved her but he had no faith in her. He became the parent and she became the child.

So I had never had a serious or intimate conversation with my grandmother as an adult. I was nervous about her invitation.

I called out hello, looking into the crosshatched, dark gray of the house, seeing the ghostly outlines of her worn furniture.

I stepped away from the door, turned and looked around, scanning the neighborhood. Small ranch houses, brick or vinyl-sided, lined the street as far as I could see in one direction and to a stop sign and a busy thoroughfare in the other. It was spring, new leaves on all the tall, front-yard trees. Two young teenage boys and a girl with the hood of her sweatshirt pulled over her head were skateboarding off a steep curb over and over again, trying some trick, something new they couldn’t figure out. I thought about how I had been a decent skateboarder, spending hours and hours in a halfpipe, my head filled with the magnified, throaty roar of wheels on wood. The kids’ skateboard made a loud crack noise every time the deck hit the weathered asphalt, and my eyelids involuntarily blinked like doors slamming.

“Hello,” my grandmother called from behind me. I turned, and there she was materializing out of the dark like a figure in a Polaroid to open the screen door. I stepped inside, smiling.

She was in her seventies then, but she looked older. Her face was puffy, as if she’d been crying only minutes ago, eyelids red and tumescent, though she was smiling wide now. She had newly dyed hair—a deep black. She wore a teal leisure suit. She had already told me earlier on the phone that this was her bingo night, that she’d only have a couple of hours to talk.

She stepped to me suddenly in the small foyer, a gesture that belied her fragile appearance, reaching up and putting a hand on each of my shoulders, staring for a long moment at my face. She pulled me to her and held me as if I had risen from the dead, as if I was not myself but my dad, without the killing cancer, the mouth ulcers, the skeletal frame.

I had written a story in the late 90s about my father, which was about 80% true, if you can quantify truth in that way (or in any way), or really it was a stylized essay, with heavy narrative elements and a fragmented structure and time jumps (I was overly interested in artistic form then). In this story I recounted an anecdote about my father having to go help out with his mother when she was found drunk and barely conscious in a neighbor’s front yard one night. She was an alcoholic, recovering and relapsing throughout her life, but significantly better and stable during the time of this visit. And she had been, decades before her summons to me, twice temporarily committed to Eastern State Hospital—“the asylum,” as everyone I knew called it—for life-threatening substance abuse and odd and erratic behavior.

In my story—which included my own aestheticized version of a real moment in an old woman’s life—I aired all this dirty laundry like an eager would-be author fiddling with material. And, for effect, for some kind of symbolic resonance, I included a true but devastating story about how she once killed my father’s favorite pet and fed it to him. Then I published it in a well-regarded but probably little-read literary journal. It was not directly about my grandmother insofar as she was not the main subject; it was an elegy of sorts for my father and his tough, hard, sometimes tragic, and too-short life, ended by lung cancer at the age of 52.

I knew few people would see it, fewer still would read it start to finish. But I had needed to write it. So I was happy when I heard the piece would be listed in a “best of” anthology and even happier when I was informed it would be reprinted in another. Still, I thought it would be ignored, even anthologized and in wider circulation.

I was young, and prose was an art and craft I approached with religious zeal, much more seriously than I do now, since I am older, make my living teaching, and have a realistic understanding of how little what I write has any impact on the world. I have become more minimalist in style as I have become more minimalist in ego, in life (I don’t mean this as a defeatist statement; I find it all quite relieving, a quasi-Buddhist peace with what is).

Anyway, my grandmother had an eighth-grade education, was a recovering and relapsing and recovering alcoholic, as I said, and lived in a world a million miles away from literature and writing and the English degrees I had pursued. Or so I thought. It didn’t occur to me, not even for a second, that she could have read my story when I sat down on her couch. I had used her, turned her into a character, which alters the truth of a person for some more singular narrative purpose. The ethical thicket of the way I represented her burbled beneath my mental surface, if you will, but it didn’t occur to me that I would have to face it.

She wanted to talk about my father. She wanted to talk about being a mother—the joy, the pain, the pressure. She sat down in a blue, plush chair across from me—so frail, so wrinkled—leaning forward, her leisure suit almost blending into the upholstery. There was a clear effort to be as close to me as possible, as if to emphasize what she wanted to say, our connection, I don’t know.

“He loved that little duck,” she said—no set up, no prelude. “I think your dad was ten or eleven. Called the duck Pete. Pete the duck. He found him one day at the pond with a broken wing and brought him home. Had a little pen out back that I helped him make with chicken wire I had for keeping rabbits out of my vegetable garden.” She paused, looked me in the eye, waited to see if I would say anything. My heart was beating a little faster, and I could feel my face was blushing. I said nothing.

She went on (and of course this is remembered, recreated, and fictionalized dialogue). “Well, I drank back then, and I know you know that.” A pause, a long look. My incrimination. “Anyway, my husband, John, your granddaddy, dead long before you were born, of course, got on me about not having any Sunday dinner. He was real country, you know, and he expected a Sunday dinner in the early afternoon and he could be mean. We didn’t have a good marriage, I’m sorry to say. Fought all the time. I was angry, fed up, and I got to drinking, and I went out back and got your daddy’s little Pete out of the pen. I snapped his neck like I used to with the chickens back on the farm when I was a girl. Your daddy ate Pete that afternoon none the wiser. He had a great Sunday dinner with his father grimacing at the head of the table, not saying one word. Then I told him what he was eating. He went right into a crying fit, right over his plate, weeping and carrying on. I swear that boy cried for three days.”

I sat very still, attentively listening, holding my expression as blank as possible, as if this was a story I was hearing for the first time.

She waited to see if I would say something now about an incident I had turned into a scene and which she had obviously read. It would have been natural to ask a question. One would expect a question, some comment, offered here. I didn’t. My silence told the story of my guilt. Then she said, “I’ve always felt real bad about that. I loved your daddy and I’m ashamed I did that. I’m ashamed of a lot of things. If I could take it back, take that day away, not hurt him, I would. I certainly would. I was his mother and I loved him. I want you to know that. That’s what I wanted to tell you, and I needed to say it to you in person. I needed to look at you.”

For months after this meeting, I was haunted by shame to the point of depression and mental paralysis, her words—and even more her red, wet eyes—on an excoriating tape loop through my thoughts.

A few years later, after she died suddenly of undiagnosed late-stage colon cancer, and after two of my cousins, clearly also readers of my work, refused to even look at me at her funeral, I started a new story meant to redeem her. The first line was: “I knocked on my grandmother’s tattered screen door.” But the damage was done. I never finished it.

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AGNI GBGreg Bottoms is the author of seven books, including the memoir Angelhead and the travel book The Colorful Apocalypse: Journeys in Outsider Art, both published by the University of Chicago Press. See what he’s published in AGNI here.

We Can Talk About This

by Oleh Lysheha
(translated from the Ukrainian by James Brasfield, with Oksana Tatsyak)

Already the ducks have flown away. Still, there are white herons and black storks. I saw dozens of them in the woods. We can even talk about this.

The sense of wildness is also a large, intellectual notion for me. I’ve never equated the idea of wildness with barbarism.

Put simply, my hand can be kindred to moss or bark, but it can never be kin to the hand covered with blood—the hand covered with the blood of a victim.

But the distance between my blood and my hand should have no mediator. My only mediator is

a pencil. It alone can express something or I can make something with my hands.


I can make a jar or a pot or an image of a man from clay. I want to give birth with my hands and not kill. I want to give birth to some form.

In this sense, my poems very much resemble pottery. Poetry for me is a kind of sculpture that brings the clay upwards, gives it a form. I treat words the way I treat clay. I don’t have a literary or linguistic approach—but words are something . . . I know that I can create from clay. . . .


The white walls, the murals in Kyiv, taught me the concept of fresco. And what is fresco? It is changeable, always fresh, fresh chalk, and eternal. It’s always near and at the same time distant, diametrically opposed. But at a certain moment, everything falls into place.

Or consider ochre. It’s a whole world. I would not have believed I could give up everything for a bit of pigment. The professional artist doesn’t consider this red pigment a proper material. For me, it is a great world. The white wall and the red pigment.

Look how everything has grown silent while we’ve been talking. We must have been talking quite a while. Several centuries have passed. . . .

What interests me? A literature that understands these things. One that already has released those creaturely things and then talks to them, inviting them back for a visit. One that speaks to them as if they were guests or relatives—such is an authentic notion.

. . . I would like my words to become simply red ochre. And that my words (it’s hard for me even to think about this) be rather pale without beautiful figures or weighty metaphors that have many layers beneath them, the so-called baroque . . . After all, everyone understands baroque differently. And this is the very thing I didn’t want . . . I wanted my words to be very transparent so they would be easily erased. Rain may erase grains of ochre. Nevertheless, they lasted for thousands of years on clay and bone. Ochre’s penetration is ghostly (I don’t know of course if it’s ghostly). Or maybe it penetrated memory. It’s hard to talk about this. . . .


. . . This notion of wildness is very important to me. It contains the sense of wildness as antithesis to domestication. On the other hand, wildness is concealment, invisibility, noiselessness, fragility, and a refinement. One can come up with many epithets if one compares a wild bird with a chicken. The little bird is the real bird for me. The domesticated one tells me more about the human than the bird. Sometimes it happens that both features are combined and then a crow has found the chickens. Even that happens. Nothing is absolute. But this notion of the untamed is far removed from fabrications of wildness, from rudeness, from mannerisms. I can come up with a string of words which can be attributed to high art, such as rarefied or exquisite. But they have an unpleasant coloring for me.


. . . This is only an understanding about poetry, because poetry is something archaic. It’s something behind us, something around us. Such is the generosity of the wild bird that fluttered here, just now . . . Poetry, or at least a path to poetry, leads through such matters. Along a very ancient path somewhere flowers were blooming in front of your eyes—something fluttered, a frog jumped, some girl rushed somewhere and hid. A butterfly. All of it is a mystery along that imaginary path, but that path cannot be covered with asphalt. Because mushrooms do not grow through asphalt . . . But a lot of other things get through it. After all, we get through it. We cannot call this present world uninteresting, can we?


These [my] poems . . . It is important for me that they be a fragment of an epic canvas and, at the same time, remain present and alive. It is important for me to have a wide perspective that aims to incorporate the immenseness of what is ancient with current, everyday life.

They must have a background, middle ground, and foreground. This is very important.

If there is no background, everything seems flat. Without a middle ground, there is no air. Without a foreground, nothing seems plausible.

I look for different genres to express all of it.

One can’t exploit the same form all the time. Maybe it worked before, but it can’t be exploited over and over again. It becomes a cliché. One must find a new form. In fact, it should take a form of its own. One doesn’t need to look for it specifically.

It may take the form of a parable. Some kind of parable. Perhaps poems are already parables to a certain degree, but they are not one-dimensional. In parables, all that is unnecessary is removed and smoothed out. Yet it is important to me to have all these seemingly small details, all these little things, because they are very important. I don’t use the hierarchy of fable or parable—some things set up the tone, others sing in tune. Everything is important to me.


I can title my poems one way or another. For example, I called one of them “Turtle,” but I could have just as well called it “Palm.” It would change little. For example, “Crow” was initially called “Woods.” But these proximities, this polysemy, began to hinder me. It stops me and I don’t know how to go on. I have some canonical poems. The canon keeps me disciplined. And I understand this need. . . .


. . . It’s important for me to preserve at least a bit of the prototype of a poem. Despite my own use of abstraction, something must remain there. I would like to leave my reader with a bit of clay from which I built my imagery, so that one must complete it or emend it a little. This is my ideal of authenticity. . . .

The most important thing is to preserve the fragrance, color and texture of things. I can’t transform them completely into words, but the remnants of the invisible and mysterious material world should be present along with the words as an equivalence of it, along with the poem.

. . . Invisible, but it should be present. And this is a great possibility, if you don’t chase the words, but the character.

It’s sad that I can’t fully explain it. But if you explain it completely, you cannot do it again. . . .

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AGNI LyshehaOleh Lysheha (1949-2014), exiled to Buryatia by Soviets and whose work was banned from publication for sixteen years, became one of Ukraine’s finest poets, invited to numerous international festivals, including the Cúirt International Festival of Literature, Harbourfront International Festival of Authors, and the Miłosz Festival, and was a Fulbright Scholar to the United States.

BrasfieldJames Brasfield has published two collections of poems from LSU Press—Ledger of Crossroads (2009) and Infinite Altars (2016)—and received fellowships in poetry from the NEA and the Pennsylvania Council on the Arts. See what he’s published in AGNI here.

Hearing Voices: Two Questions with Patrick Dacey

Leone Brander for AGNI: Your story “Once More Before It’s Too Late” (AGNI 86) has such a compelling and unique first-person speaker and I really admired how his language captured his character. Specifically, I wanted to ask you: What goes into creating such a strong first-person voice? Do you have a specific person(s) you are trying to emulate, or are you more focused on language?

I start first with voice. For me, that’s the most important part of writing a story, and the most difficult. Writers, like a lot of crazy people, hear voices. And you have to pick which ones are the loudest to get at a story you find worth telling. With this story, I started with the line, “So maybe I am uneven,” and went from there. From the voice comes the character. To me, he sounded defensive, and so this story took on the shape of a defense for the reckless actions he takes to try and prove he’s a better father than we initially perceive him to be. I think here and in most of my recent work, the impact of what I’m seeing in our country and around the world is very present. The characters I’m hearing want to be better people; know they can be better; and struggle to figure out how.

LB/AGNI:  It’s interesting to me that the whole story began with a single line of voice. How much did voice dictate the plot in this piece? Is this a common way that you formulate your stories?

Voice can carry a story, really, because that voice is responsible for the other characters’ actions, words, and reactions, all of which are perceived in a specific way by this one narrator. That’s why I don’t believe an unreliable narrator exists. Most people think they’re pretty reliable, and they wouldn’t tell you a story about how tragically unreliable they are, would they? Maybe on their death beds. Maybe that’s why there are so many terrible death bed novels.

Once you realize how reliably unreliable narrators actually are, then you can fool around with how this narrator would tell the story to a specific person–so the story changes if he’s telling it to his friend, mother, co-worker, etc—and it becomes multiple versions of the same story.

I think about all this as I start out, but there are images that appear, too, as in this story, like the image of the insides of the old courthouses on Cape Cod, the beauty, yet rigidity of those colonial buildings. These images are of a place, really. So if I have this voice in a specific place, I can start to feel the story this character needs to tell.

AGNI Monkey

AGNI PD Patrick Dacey is the author of the story collection We’ve Already Gone this Far and the novel The Outer Cape. His stories have appeared in The Paris Review, Zoetrope All Story, AGNI, Guernica, Bomb, and elsewhere. He has worked as a reporter, landscaper, door-to-door salesman, and on the overnight staff at a homeless shelter and detox center, and now teaches creative writing at the College of William and Mary in Williamsburg, Virginia. See what he’s published in AGNI here.


Processed with VSCO with k3 presetIn addition to being an intern at AGNI, Leone Brander is a Canadian author and illustrator. Her work has appeared in Canadian Notes and Queries, Bacopa Literary Review, and the Bellingham Review. She earned her BFA in creative writing at the University of Victoria and is currently an MFA student at Boston University.

The Continuing Story of How I Learned English

by Stefani Nellen

I’m German, and with the exception of short vacations I never left the country before my mid-twenties. Then I moved to Pittsburgh, PA. When I was living there, people sometimes asked me: “Where did you learn English?” My answer was always the same: “In school.” As in: not at home—I wasn’t raised bilingually.

While technically true, my answer was also incomplete. My relationship with English started much earlier.

I remembered this when I heard my son, Floris, who is about four and a half years old now, sing along with the songs of the Beatles. He mostly speaks Dutch (his father’s language and the language of the country where we live) with the occasional word of German, but when the Beatles are on, he imitates the sounds he’s hearing, filling in syllables to complete the melody. He usually gets the vowels right. One of his favorite songs is Hey Jude, and when Paul McCartney sings “to make it better, better, better…” Floris joins in with his own version, “make it bero, bero, bero, bero…”

Listening to this fantasy-English in progress I recall the time when my brain was in the same state; when instead of German and English there was only Language, and language consisted of any sound you could make. I know my personal copy of English still has a few issues—not fatal, hopefully, but noticeable, remnants of this early stage of messy, uncritical assemblage. I like this idea. I like talking to my friends about our favorite English songs, and what we thought they were saying before we knew the words.

I first consciously listened to the Beatles in my mother’s car, an old Renault 5. I was older than Floris is now, but I still had some years to go before I’d start learning English at school. My mother had recorded a radio show where people could call in and ask for a Beatles song, and we would listen to the tape—both the talking and the music—whenever we drove to my grandmother’s allotment. The songs’ titles (as pronounced by German fans) became part of my early version of English too, distorted not only by tape and radio but also by the weak lens of my existing knowledge. One man called in to request, with a slight twang he probably thought was authentic: “You gotta hide your lovaway.” In my mind, the title became two parallel sentences: “You gotta hide, you lovvo way”—as if the second part was a repetition of the first, another way of saying the same thing. My mother, like my father, barely spoke English and wasn’t any help. Help! as a title was simple enough, but the lyrics again changed shape in my bubbling brain. “I’m not so self-assured” was then (and deep inside of me always will be) “I’m not so safe ashore.” Let It Be sounded so simple. My mother translated it literally: Lass es sein! Translated back into English, this means: Don’t Do It! Knowing the song, this didn’t feel right to me. But I couldn’t argue—not yet.

My mother was quick to point out that, while she liked the Beatles, she liked the Rolling Stones better, and she adored Mick Jagger. She said she was always a rebel. There are pictures of her with long hair and bell-button jeans, plucking notes on a guitar and frowning while walking down a path in the same allotment where she would later take me. She could have gone on to secondary school, but she got a job and moved in with her boyfriend instead. The joy of escaping her parents’ supervision was clear to her; the benefits of staying in school only struck her when she had me. Her love of Jagger never changed. She once recited her favorite line next to me in the car, the English obviously rehearsed and her German accent thick: “I can’t get no satisfaction!” And, with a glance at me, the translation: “Ich kann keine Befriedigung kriegen.” The English sounds angry, the German sounds like an awkward piece of personal trouble you only share with your doctor.

The first book I read on my own was a German children’s book called The Little Vampire, but the Beatles weren’t far behind. My parents owned The Beatles Songbook—selected songs by the Beatles translated into German, and accompanied by illustrations I found disturbing. The one next to Taxman showed a fat man in a suit whose head was also a meat grinder; he stuffed things into his skull and emitted noodles of processed paste from his mouth—at least that’s the image of my memory. Another one showed a smiling John Lennon lying on his belly. His back lifted up and twisted back like a scorpion’s tail, and his feet were walking down a staircase into his own head.

Being able to read along with the songs generated the first official entries in my brand new dictionary. I corrected past mistakes, e.g., I finally learned that Fixing a Hole means repairing the hole instead of “sort of keeping an eye on it,” as I had always assumed. The corrections made room for new errors: Love Me Do was translated as “Komm, hab’ mich lieb,” or “Come here and love me,” and for a short while I thought you had to add “do” to the end of a sentence if you wanted a person to do something immediately. I also encountered the first examples of translators claiming their artistic freedom. What did John Lennon mean when he said “I’d love to turn you on?” My mother, illustrating her point by getting up and dancing in place, said that being turned on means the feeling you listen to your favorite song at a high volume. So I was surprised when whoever translated A Day in the Life chose to go with “Ich will euch Zucker auf den Po streuen.” Or, translated back into English: “I want to pour sugar on your butt.”

I started taking English at school when I was eleven. The time for making mistakes without punishment was over. We were drilled on weekly vocabulary lists and all possible types of if-clauses, asked to stand up and enunciate alternating vees and double-u’s (“very well, vvvery ou-ell”), and come to the blackboard to spell words like “necessary” until our neatly-bunned, Oxford-educated teacher was satisfied—or as satisfied as she could be, given the human material she had to work with.

As mottled as they were with exceptions, the rules of grammar were, as my teacher would have loved to pronounce (and spell) flawlessly, very necessary. Through them, I learned to do more than copy language where I found it. I could manipulate it instead. I could say new things. It was like witchcraft. Alchemy. The present could be changed into the past, and the past could be changed into the future. A statement could be changed into an order, an order into a question, a question into speculation, speculation into a dream.

However, the unofficial story of my English education that had started with the Beatles continued. At the time, I was reading a teenage magazine called BRAVO—quite a cheerful name, considering what being a teenager is really like. Each issue contained the lyrics of two current hit songs along with a German translation. You could cut out the pages and glue them together so they became a book: the “BRAVO songbook.” I must have collected hundreds of them over the years. It didn’t matter whether I liked the song or the lyrics. I carried it with me all day, and read in it often. I still remember the texture of the flimsy magazine paper, the smell of the glue that had leaked out between the pages and hardened, the stiff blobs of it that darkened the text. The songbook taught me new expressions: She’s got the look. Giving you the benefit. Straight up. Manchild. Jerk out. It taught me lines that completed the dialogue in our textbook. “Hi, I’m Mike. I’m from Colchester. We live in a semi-detached house.”—“Shut up and sleep with me.” I learned that a genie in a bottle was only distantly related to the German word for “genius,” even if you rubbed her the right way.

Whence the fascination of the songbook? A large part of it was being a teenager, of course, and looking for my own world far away from parents and school. But it was also, in the case of lyrics that weren’t inane, my chance to regain a sense of language-related wonder, insecurity, of lawlessness almost. A chance to see the branches that were beyond me and take a leap. In the songbook I didn’t have to do anything correctly. I was allowed to imagine.

A random pick from my memory: Neneh Cherry with Buffalo Stance. I bought the record from my pocket money after reading the lyrics, put it on in my room using my father’s big old headphones, and read along. The first three words: Gigolo, huh, sucker—like code from another world. Then, she let me hear it:

Who’s that gigolo on the street
With his hands in his pockets and his crocodile feet
Hanging off the curb, looking all disturbed
At the boys from home, they all came running
They were making noise, manhandling toys
That’s the girls on the block with the nasty curls
Wearing padded bras sucking beers through straws
Dropping down their drawers, where did you get yours?

That question left me hanging. Where did I get mine? I didn’t own a dictionary, so I couldn’t look up the words I didn’t know, which would have left me with a baffling lack of context, anyway. Like the songbook translation, my brain stayed in literal-land and painted a scene in which the gigolo (a funny looking man in a suit) really had crocodile feet while he looked all “disturbed,” which meant crazy and scary, like Alex on the Clockwork Orange movie poster, and the boys, not the girls, were the toys: plastic robot figures who made fake shooting noises and did something called “manhandling”: clumsily chopping the air and picking up rubble. The girls were like dolls you could dress and undress with their padded bras and dropped drawers, and their strange beer bottles with straws that fit their plastic lips.

I knew I was making stuff up, but that was the point, too: to counter the singer’s speed and control with an effort of my own. It was exciting. On the outside, I was sitting on the floor with huge headphones sliding down the sides of my head, but inside me, my heart was racing, the pulse of my neurons swept up by the desire to express myself.

I didn’t listen to this song and others thinking, “One day I want to write like this.” I didn’t start writing in English until many years later, under different circumstances, and when I did it was about different things. But reading the songbook while listening to music was the thing that kept me learning. It gave me an idea of what language could do to a listener: it could surprise, impress, and ultimately silence. I spoke. You may nod, then leave. Too soon, I thought I had that ability, when all I did was bounce around on my little trampoline and watching the certified acrobats do tricks that were not safe for me to do.

In fact, English never started to feel safe. Every day, the world forces me to correct assumptions I had about the English language. At a snail’s pace, I’m still learning, still getting bero.

I always felt safe in German, and never appreciated it until now, when I barely get to speak it anymore. I think everyone feels like this about their first language, or at least everyone should.

When someone asks me how to express a certain thing in English, I try to refer them to a native speaker. If that’s impossible, I offer a few possible answers, and provide my reasons for each, always with the caveat, “but remember…you know…grain of salt…”

When someone asks me how to express a certain thing in German, I just tell them. Are you sure this is correct? Yes. Why? Because I know. Sucker.

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NellenStefani Nellen’s stories have appeared in Glimmer Train, Third Coast, CutBank Magazine, and elsewhere. Her work has won the Glimmer Train Fiction Open and the Montana Prize in Fiction (judged by Alexandra Kleeman) and was chosen as runner-up for the Wabash Prize in Fiction and a finalist in the Iowa Review Awards. A former psychologist, Nellen lives in the Netherlands with her family. See what she’s published in AGNI here.